Quote from Hangar45 Admin on December 18, 2017, 9:17 am

(Original thread started on 12-01-13 by Nigel Breddy)

Hi all, well here's my latest problem. I have populated my Engine start panel with the AMLs and toggle switches and managed to get the LEDs working as desired. These all link nicely into the FDS Board software interface but how do I get this all liked into FSUIPC. Also when reading through the Learjet 45 Panel Guide document, it explains how several actions happen when a button is pressed, i.e. the L/R FIRE PUSH button.

 

Is there a document out there to help with this as well as advising the offsets for this panel?

 

(Posted by Eric Tomlin on 12-09-13)

Hi Nigel, the biggest two things are 1) understanding what the panel is supposed to do (via the Panel Guide or an actual LJ45 manual which is where the Panel Guide info is taken from) and 2) taking advantage of the XMLs that I created and that Alan (I believe) email you. Paramount to all of this is also understanding how the FDS System Cards work. Once you get a good idea on how to interface both latching and momentary push buttons, toggles, and rotary selectors, then you will be in a much better place to interface the various LJ45 specific functions. The XML files allow you to simply take advantage of the time I've put into making the desired outcome work for each specific switch. Because I do not want to overwhelm you with examples (since I do not know how far you have gone into learning the FDS card) can you give a very specific example of a function you'd like to program? Keeping it here would enable others to benefit as well.

 

All of this is accomplished by "stacking" several functions into one single switch.

 

NOTE: The Fire Extinguishers and Fire Push Systems are a bit mysterious (regarding their use in FSX) and do not quite work the way they do in real life. Shane has worked with these and has a method to make them work decently and I have my method too. Essentially the switch does several things at once and per the Panel Guide:

 

L/R FIRE PUSH This annunciation flashes when fire or an overheat condition has been detected for the respective engine. Once pressed, the momentary FIRE PUSH switch performs the following:

 

• Closes the engine main fuel shutoff value [so you'd have the switch cut off the L or R Engine Fuel Supply]

• Closes the hydraulic shutoff valve [Not possible in FSX default LJ45]

• Closes the bleed air valve from the engine [Would shut this system down via Internal Variables that are part of the XML files for the L/R Bleed Air switches]

• Disconnects the generator and alternator [Disconnected via the "Generator OFF" offset]

• Disables the on-side Windshield heat system [Would shut this system down via Internal Variables that are part of the XML files for the L/R Windshield Heat switches]

• Prevents electrical power from being supplied to the thrust reverser isolation valve [Not sure if possible to disable in FSX]

• Arms the engine fire extinguisher system, effectively causing the ARMED lights to illuminate. [Done via Internal Variable that you use for the L/R Extinguisher switches/indicators]

 

Once pressed, the FIRE PUSH buttons stops flashing and is illuminated steady and “CLOSED” appears in the upper half of the switch cap.

 

(Posted by Nigel Breddy on 12-10-13)

Hi Eric, I have played around with the FDS board and connected the switches and LEDs to it and performed the basic testing. I have connected the FDS board to the Sim server and I'm now in a position to program the as per your post and XML files.

 

I did get the XML files emailed to me from Alan with the exception of the Engine start panel, could you please email this one over. This is the first panel I have completed in terms of AMLs and LEDs so clearly a good place to start. I hope this gives you a clearer picture of where I'm at.

 

(Posted by Alan Norris on 12-11-13)

Nigel, I haven't had chance to fire up my PC to get those 4 engine start XML files yet. If Eric has them to hand I'm sure he'll send them. I found that if I first went through and named all of the switches and LEDs before I started programming it made things easier. When you program each item you have the choice to overwrite the name you used with that of the XML file or keep the name you used. It's up to you. I used a different naming system than the ones Eric used when he created the XML files but that is entirely up to you.

 

When you get the engine start panel switches and LEDs programmed (L START, R START, L STBY, and R STBY) you will check to see if they operate correctly. Press the L START and the left engine will spool up and the AML LED will illuminate as will the L STBY LED. After about ten seconds the L START and L STBY LEDs will extinguish. The standby pumps are only used for start up -- or to transfer fuel in flight from one tank to the other (although I never got that to work but I think Ron did) as the engine driven pumps are used. Hope this helps.

 

(Posted by Nigel Breddy on 12-11-13)

That's fantastic Alan, at least now I know what I'm looking for when I hit the start button. I finish up work on the 16th Dec for the Christmas period so hopefully I'll get in some quality sim time! I'll await the XML file from either yourself of Eric, hopefully I'll get it before the 16th, no pressure, honestly - whenever you're free.

 

(Posted by Eric Tomlin on 12-11-13)

All of this is outlined in a very detailed manner in the panel guide. It tells you when what items are illuminated and how they interact with other switches.

 

For example:

L/R STBY: The momentary L/R STBY switches are illuminated as ON when pressed on and functions as a standby pump system for the following:

 

• For Engine Start- The L/R STBY switch automatically illuminates as ON with the respective L/R Engine Start switch and remains illuminated until the START switch extinguishes.

 

NOTE: The Panel Guide that I have created is only available directly from me to customers.

 

(Posted by Nigel Breddy on 12-14-13)

Eric, any chance you could email me the start panel XML, I will PM you with my email address?

 

UPDATE:

Thanks for all the files Eric and Alan. I'm at the point of importing these XML files but when looking at the naming convention I see you have both "I" and "O" files for the same function. Is the one for the switch and the other for the LED, if so which is which or am I altogether wrong? I thought it could be input / output and if so then they should both probably be assigned to the switch with the "I" imported first, but if this is the case then how does it tie back to the LED?

 

I've spent a few hours testing this and I think I've figured it out. The "I" files are for the switches and the "O" files are for the LEDs, could you guys confirm this is correct?

 

(Posted by Alan Norris on 12-16-13)

That is correct - O for LEDS (Output) and I for switches (Inputs). I emailed the four XML files for the engine start panel to you this morning (EST).

 

(Posted by Nigel Breddy on 12-26-13)

Well, it's all set up now, wired in and to a degree working. One problem I am facing, and maybe you guys can point me in the right direction, is when trying to start the engines, one at a time, the engine spins up, with START annunciated vertically down the outboard sides of the EICAS display beneath the ITT scales, but doesn't start up, it spins up trying to start for about 10 seconds then shuts down. This happens to both engines.

 

If I press Ctrl E on the keyboard, the L STBY and L START LEDs light up and the engine starts with the same for the right side but not if I try to start them from the panel, no such luck. Any ideas?

 

(Posted by Alan Norris on 12-26-13)

In addition to START being displayed on the EICAS you should also have IGN displayed as well. Without that the engine will not start. The XML file should have the correct Offset that will do that for you. I'm not sure why it's not working. Try deleting the entry for that AML and start from scratch. BTW Do you have the throttle for that engine in the first position (i.e. one notch up from CUT OFF)? If it's still in the cut off position then it will not start.

 

(Posted by Eric Williams on 12-26-13)

Agree on the cutoff. If the FSX/FSUIPC command for "full rich" is not activated you will get no start. The command for cutoff is "full lean" in the FSX controls. The autostart did this for us automatically before we had all our goodies working.

 

(Posted by Nigel Breddy on 12-26-13)

Not winning here Alan, I deleted off the entries for both the L START and the L STBY, reassigned them but no luck. I do see the IGN light up as well as START in the EICAS but engine spools up for about 10 seconds then shuts down. I don't have any notches on the throttles as I'm using the GOFLIGHT GF-TQ6 but raise the throttles a slight way up, as far as I would when taxing and still no joy.

 

Eric I'm not too sure where to check what you proposed, could you expand a bit more.

 

It must be something to do with the panel's settings somewhere as it fires up first time from the keyboard (control E).

 

Just to be 100% sure, all I'm doing is depressing the L START button once and releasing it straight away and patiently wait for the engine to start, do I have to press any other buttons at the same time or not?

 

(Posted by Eric Tomlin on 12-26-13)

BEFORE pressing the Eng Start switch, try Ctrl+F4 key to set your fuel to "Rich" as Eric W. was saying. Then press the desired Engine Start switch. Also, if you're using my XML files I believe the START time is set for 18 seconds which should be enough unless you are severe cold weather.

 

(Posted by Alan Norris on 12-27-13)

If you haven't programmed the GoFlight TQ then you need to do that. I'm not sure how GF handles the fuel cut off but there is an Offset in FSUIPC to do that (full lean for cut off and full rich for idle). When I had the GF TQ if I remember correctly there was no notches so you will have to move the lever just off the fully closed to program Full Rich and program Full Lean when it's in the fully closed position. Alternatively you could add the Offset for Full Rich to the programming for the Engine Start AML prior to the entries that the XML added. I think that should mimic putting the throttle in the start position.

 

(Posted by Nigel Breddy on 12-27-13)

Well after struggling all afternoon I sort of got it working. The Ctrl F4 didn't work Eric but investigated the mixture settings a little deeper and did the following. I opened up FSUIPC and allocated a switch on the yoke to set the mixture to rich, then the engines started. I then thought I could possibly set the L and R Engine start XML files to set the mixture to Rich but couldn't find the offset anywhere. I have the doc listing all the offsets but these all relate to engine 1, engine 2 engine 3 and engine 4 but not a universal mixture offset. Sating that I haven't set up an offset as yet and there is more options when setting these up which I have no knowledge of. Could one of you possibly modify the current xml file to include the mixture settings if you can find the correct offset?

 

Alan, in terms of setting up the GF TQ via FSUIPC proved a disaster many months ago and settled on letting FSX use the GF TQ controller settings which worked perfectly. So trying to set the idle and cut off settings in FSUIPC is a route I would prefer to not go down.