Quote from Hangar45 Admin on December 18, 2017, 8:22 am

(Original thread started on 10-26-09 by Mark L.)

Since I ordered and received my PoKeys55t today, I was wondering if anyone has any experience yet with interfacing potentiometers with it yet? Specifically adapting specific points of the pot travel to do certain things such as varying the flaps or spoilers. It will automap to joystick axis's, but how do you use it for flaps and spoilers? Will this require programming?

 

UPDATE:  (10-17-16) The PoKeys55t and PoKeys56U has been replaced with the PoKeys57u which is basically the same card but with upgraded features and abilities. Here is a link to the PoKeys57u card:

https://www.poscope.com/product/pokeys57u/

 

(Posted by Vince C. on 10-26-09)

As a pot is a variable resistance, the board will recognize it's physical position. This means that after you have calibrated through the game peripherals in the control panel, you will always get the same value each time it's in the same position. FSUIPC will do the remaining part by simply setting IN and OUT positions and number of detents. Even if the detents you have aren't exactly equally spaced due to particular Lear45 flap lever position, you should achieve very good result. Just give it a try!

 

(Posted by Mark L. on 10-26-09)

You know that was way too easy! I've never played around or even looked at the FSUIPC within FSX to see what all that stuff there did and I didn't realize that FSX would recognize more than one joystick axis of the same (I assigned it to X for the Flaps), took 5 minutes and it's working awesome. Okay, I'm sold, buy the PoKeys! Thanks Vince! Gee, now I'm an expert! and it only took 5 minutes.

 

Okay, now that I have the entire TQ wired up to the PoKeys, I can't get anything to work right. I've shutdown (selected inactive) everything except the left and right throttles. Even though they have a throttle defined, I need 2 and only have 1 PoKey card for now. So it shouldn't be an issue to simply assign the left throttle to the X axis and the right to Y. But I cannot get these to work properly. The closest I get has the Reverse Thrust kicking in where I believe the pot starts to go in negative numbers. Why is the Rev thrust even coming into play? Also from what I've read it shouldn't matter which pin I have the 3v and ground on (outside 2 pins). But now I'm suspecting everything I do and read. Thoughts?

 

(Posted by Shane Barnes on 10-28-09)

Hey Mark, are you programming thru FSUIPC? If so, concerning the reverse thrust coming into play I think there is a box that you can check /uncheck when setting up the throttles in FSUIPC. I'm going on memory here so I could be incorrect but I think if you have the box checked it will include a reverser when throttle is pulled all the way down. If you uncheck this box it allows for reverse thrust to be programmed in a different way and when you pull throttle all the way down you will not get the reverse thrust engagement.

 

(Posted by Mark L. on 10-28-09)

Okay, I got them to work, but not sure how, I've played with so many settings. There are 3 columns (I'm using the direct to FSUIPC Calibration) Reverse, Idle and Max, it appears as though that if the Reverse is not equal to idle, then the Reverse thrusters are factored in. Not explained very well. There is a checkbox called 'Rev', but this is to reverse the values from the pot which I had to do, as Murphy allowed me it seems to wire up the ground and 3.3v opposite of what it wants on every pot I wired up! At least that works. The flaps are working fine and I'm close but no cigar on the Spoilers. The spoilers have several detents and I can't seem to dial in the first 2 detents yet.

 

I've also discovered that the PoKeys does not like nor want momentary switches to be wired up normally closed. They should be normally open with the momentary action to close them. You can not use the 'invert pin' option when configured this way. So I have to change the wiring of my switches for the reverse thrusters and the TOGO and Mute switches. Also I found that while in the past I have just hit F2 for reverse thrusters, sort of a on/off with F2 and F1, I could have used pots on these as well. Thrusters can have the thrust varied on them if configured that way. Now I have to figure out how to send the F2 using the repeat function, but I also need it to send F1 when I exit Reverse Thruster mode.

 

(Posted by Shane Barnes on 10-28-09)

Hey Mark, check out THROTTLEn_SET in FSUIPC manual. I think this is what I unchecked to keep reverse thrust from engaging with throttle in down position.

 

(Posted by Mark L. on 10-28-09)

Unchecked? Maybe I misunderstood when I read that part. I'll uncheck it and try it.

 

From the manual:

"On the four throttles page there is an option (lower center) to exclude THROTTLEn_SET axis controls. This is provided to handle a specific problem when calibrating the throttles in some advanced add-on aircraft, and it is enabled by default . Only disable this option if you have anything which is feeding FS the older FS2000 and FS98 controls which you need calibrating or otherwise directing."

 

(Posted by Eric Tomlin on 10-29-09)

Some folks will simply make the reverse thrust a simple On/Off function instead of variable. Which way are you attempting? I know for us with real TQs, I am thinking there's no easy way to make the reverse thrust variable.

 

What I'm saying is that physically it's hard to implement variable RT without all the parts, even though some of us have the real unit and so some have already placed a simple roller switch to detect the movement of the RT handles. I would love to have it variable, but I haven't seen a way to pull it off yet.

 

(Posted by Dave Ault on 10-29-09)

For each throttle I use an analogue input on my interface and use a potentiometer to give 0 - max volts into my IO card for full forward thrust to full reverse thrust. I read the voltage and then just write relevant value to each offset:

 

0x089A for throttle 1

0x0932 for throttle 2

 

This really simplifies the throttle design as it just uses 2 Potentiometers, one for left and one for right and gives me continually variable forward and reverse thrust.

 

Don't think anyone is using the same interfaces as me but the technique is just the same if you have an analogue input and the programming or script language is flexible enough ( no experience with PoKeys ).

 

If you want to look at the code then download and install my RMU/K8055 interface program as the code is included. See lines 1954 to 2012. There is also some logic in the program so I can only select R/T on the ground and can't change the throttle value if the SPD button is pressed. My program also has a calibrate feature so the transition point from forward thrust to reverse thrust can be set anywhere on the potentiometer.

 

(Posted by Mark L. on 10-29-09)

Okay, tonight I thought it would be simple to change the leads on the FuelCutOff switches and the TOGO switch so they are normally open and reconfigure the PoKeys card. I'm so frustrated with this PoKeys card right now, I'm not sure I like it anymore. I plug the wires into the card, pins 5 & 6 for the TOGO and Mute switch. Plug the USB cable in and run the PoKeys s/w. Pins 5 & 6 light up red for open, cool, that's what I want. Press the switch they go green, cool, now simply assign a direct key map for Control-Shift-G save it and I'm done. Wrong! The pin goes green, now when I push the switch, it goes red! Cannot manipulate the invert pin, not sure what's going on. Undo the key assignment and go back to none, reset the card everything is back to normal. Or suddenly the card starts sending 4 million keystrokes to the PC and I have to power off the system to regain control.

 

Even if I get this to work, FSUIPC is looking for Joystick buttons, it doesn't read a switch from this unless I map a key or run a macro. Not sure how I am going to handle say on these fuel cutoffs while the switch stays in that position and then to send a E1-Control-Shift-F4 when I take it off that position and the circuit goes open unless writing code.

 

Obviously I'm pretty upset right now with this card, 2 nights of frustration and I don't think it should be this difficult, I haven't had any issues like this with the IOCards.

 

(Posted by Vince C. on 10-30-09)

Did you update the card to the latest 2.0.7 software? Also, instead of using direct keystroke try using macro facility in the PoKeys software. I found out that using macro instead of direct key also helps with latched buttons to prevent them from making continuous key presses.

 

For using two different keystrokes while a button changes state you'll need some code, that's for sure. But you'll need with IOcards and SIOC too. Just consider that all of us sooner or later will need to implement some logic in the simulator and I don't think this can be simply done with FSUIPC. Because of the many interactions that the various systems in the airplane have on each other, you'll need to write code for it. FSUIPC might then be just the "storage" for the custom offsets needed to let interact different boards (for example PoKeys and IOCards), but nothing but software will be able to let your cockpit act the right way.

 

Give a look at what Dave created. That is a great example of what simulator logic should be and though it might even be improved he already considered many of the "what happens when" with the TQ. This is unfortunately the problem with the Learjet45 and FSX. Jason filled a hole with the AAS suite but we would still need a complete aircraft package that can reproduce all the logic in the simulator, else we'll have to build ourselves.

 

Thus said, and as this won't happen soon, my opinion is that you start by downloading the Visual Studio Express 2008 suite from the Microsoft website (that's free) and start playing a bit with C# or Visual Basic .NET. Both FSUIPC and Pokeys have SDK for it's use and their programming examples are quite easy to understand and will let you make basic software in a few hours. You won't really need any big programming skill, just a basic understanding of what a class, function, variable and program structure is to make your buttons, pots and encoders act anyway you like.

 

Last but not least you can even mix the solutions and let the PoKeys run the TQ's analog axis and the Opencockpit cards the mute and Go Around functions. There's no real downside with it. No card has all the functions you need for you Lear45. You have so many functions to assign in the cockpit that you'll soon understand that even 3-4 boards, IOcards, PoKeys or others aren't enough to cover all of the needs. So use all what is at your disposal and organize them the best way you can assigning the right functions to the cards you have that can manage them better.

 

(Posted by Eric Tomlin on 10-30-09)

Absolutely Vince, 100% agreed here. While you guys are welcome and encourage to use your I/O hardware anyway you like, there are some things in the sim that are just handled better by different hardware. As Vince said, there is no one solution hardware to handle every need in the sim. The suggestion to use the PoKeys card all along from Jason, Vince, and I was for the Rotary Encoder needs. The card offers a huge advantage for the rotary encoder needs by providing enough inputs for every rotary encoder in the entire sim/airplane. I would never use it for anything else, but since you (Mark) bought two of them, naturally you want to employ them both.

 

For me, I use (or will use):

- SYS3 for complicated/advanced inputs and outputs (in place)

- SYS1 or Open Cockpits for additional inputs not covered by SYS3 (still to purchase)

- Pokeys for ALL rotary encoders only- FGC/DU/RMUs (on hand)

- GoFlight Throttle card for my TQ levers. (on hand)

 

So you see, you have to allocate your hardware in the most efficient manner. The ONLY reason I'm considering OC for additional inputs is because you get more inputs than the SYS1 for cheaper, but I'd prefer to remain on just the SYS software, so it's a toss up.

 

Mark, you are treading new ground with your PoKeys card for the community. There will be some stones and boulders underneath the soil every once in a while.

 

(Posted by Mark L. on 10-30-09)

I don't have so much a problem with using the IOCards and SIOC for toggle functions such as the reverse thrusters, Fuel Cut Off and TOGA for example. I was trying to point out that natively the PoKeys card won't do those but mainly I was frustrated with the card changing the state of the switch when I assigned a key map. This shouldn't happen and then it hoses up your PC etc, etc. I sent them an email and haven't heard back from them yet, maybe I found a bug? Vince, yes, I'm running the latest software AND I am not using pin 4 for anything unless I have to and then it won't be a momentary switch (the manual points this out as being a no-no.)

 

I too, will mainly use this for my Rotaries and I needed something for my throttles and this part does seem to work real well. It's very possible that I might be able to configure my pit with just the PoKeys and IOCards. Oh, I only have currently 1 Pokeys card and at this point maybe all I'll need. We'll see.

 

As for the programming, I have a full professional version of Visual Studio 2008 and do quite well in C-Sharp and VB. I program web applications for a paycheck, so I think I can handle the programming I'll need to do.

 

Pretty much I was just wound to tight last night trying to figure this out after 2 nights of trying and needed to vent? I do want to know why the card though inverted the state of my switch after assigning a direct key map. That it shouldn't do, I pointed this out on a earlier email to them and they said it was because my switch was normally closed and they have to be normally open in the default state. Well I flipped the pins and it still changes the state which set it off to stream keystrokes while trying to program the card. Hopefully I'll hear something from them.

 

UPDATE:

Well Vince caught me online tonight and together we went thru a total stripped down reconfiguration and I used a different PC. His works, mine don't is the short of it, of course it might be a short causing this! But it would be on the board as we eliminated all of my stuff. But big thanks to Vince for wanting to help troubleshoot it.

 

PoLabs did get back to me and wanted screenshots of the entire setup procedure and testing, so I sent them off. Hopefully Vince and I are correct that the board is toast and they are going to send me a new one. Gee! Then I get to wire and configure it all up again.

 

UPDATE:

Things have moved quickly since last night, got a email from PoLabs this morning:

"Please write here serial number and your address. We will send you new PoKeys55 to you.

regards,

Boris Zalokar

PoLabs"

 

That is pretty good service and support, not even asking me to send back the defective one.

 

UPDATE:

Okay, Got the replacement PoKeys card tonight, set it up and tested and works as expected, not like my other card. Great service and support from PoKeys. My other card though is usable as long as I implement Macros instead of direct key mappings. Hopefully there are no other undiscovered quirks with it, but I can always order another new one.

 

(Posted by Shane Barnes on 11-12-09)

Hey Mark, good to hear you got that sorted out. It is frustrating when you can't figure out what you are doing wrong when actually doing it right, just a bad part! Especially with what we are doing with flightsim. A lot of times you are shooting in the dark and learning how something works when you really have no idea how it should look if it is right.

 

(Posted by Mark L. on 11-12-09)

You hit the nail on the head Shane. I was really getting frustrated trying to make it work like the documentation and it wouldn't. Usually electronic parts simply work or don't, not change in one little aspect like this. At this point I'd say this little card is going to work very well for very little effort compared to how I was going to do it without it. I love the programming into the card and simply plug it in. Very innovative, I'd say this problem could appear for someone else, so now we have it documented.

 

By the way, they released another update for the card, so if you have one, it might be worth plugging in and run the firmware update.

 

UPDATE:

Not sure what happened today, everything has been working fine and I haven't made any mods or changes to hardware or software in FSX and PoKeys, but everything went wacko today when I went to do a little flying. Flaps had a mind of their own, left throttle would suddenly jump to 54% and stay there, I could increase it, but wouldn't go lower. So I rebooted everything, no change, did a test in Windows calibration and it was solid. Loaded the PoKeys console, of course it found a new update and I figured I might as well at this point. Part of the configuration got corrupted, so I had to reset those parameters. Went back in to FSX, same thing, eventually had to delete all my FSUIPC settings for throttles, Flaps and Spoiler and set them up again, which took far longer than I wanted too.

 

Now Microsoft was kind enough to upload some updates last night, so the system had rebooted overnight, I don't know if it was responsible or partially. Just odd that I had to redo all these settings. It is fixed again, for now!