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Lear 45XR Aircraft Object

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I'm not sure where to put this. I will add it to a discussion on Lear 45 Discussion.

I can't find any discussion of the Lear 45 Aircraft Object files used in FSX and P3D. There are obvious discrepancies in the stock aircraft provided by MicroSoft.

1. Certain switched don't work (e.g. BCN/STROBE).
2. Exterior lights are not positioned correctly.
3. Sounds are poor (but there is some discussion about sound from Mark). However, which fise is used from TSS for turbine. Which sound is preferred for switches, brakes, etc?
4. Flight characteristics in the .air file for the stock Lear 45XR is really terrible (e.g. stall speec is incorrect). There is a file to correct flight characteristics. Is it used by Hangar45 enthusiasts?

There are many more questions. Please help showing where are the answers.

HAS ANYONE USED the Lear 35 payware aircraft object (very sophisticated) with the Lear 45 cockpit?

I have attached the change log for the Lear 35. Shows very sophisticated functionality. $45 payware for FSX and P3D up to V5

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Hi Dave,

The reason why you will not find anyone sharing Lear45 files so much is because to date, no one has come up with a really nice Lear45 flight model.  The FSX/P3D default Lear45 needs A LOT of help and it looks like we have no choice but to find a way to make it work in the new FS2020 unless a profession outfit takes it on.  And that is why I started this thread HERE, although so far, the work some of our members are doing is still behind the scenes.

To answer a couple of your questions, yes, strobe lights and Beacon lights are certainly possible, we all have them working.  But you have to be using FSUIPC.

Take a look at (Lights) FSUIPC offset 0D0C:

  • Bit 1= Beacon
  • Bit 4 = Strobes

As for the default sound, yes it does suck.  I replaced mine with the Lear35 sounds in that package I believe you are referring to.   Unfortunately, there was really nothing else in that Lear35 package that we could use.  I think I might have stole some flight modeling settings, but can't remember.

I have attached my Aircraft configuration file so that you can compare your setting to mine.  It is not perfect but certainly flyable.  You actually got to see this configuration setting in person in my sim when you were at the 2016 Hangar Day!

This should be enough information to get you going.  For the record, we are putting so much hard work into the new v2.0 sim that we will not settle for a lackluster Lear45 model.  We will have what we have all been missing one way or the other!  And the cool thing is that it looks like it will work perfectly with FSX/P3D because that is it's Genesis.

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Dave,

I know Ron has answered by focussing more on what is coming up i.e. the MSFS Learjet. Whilst we are waiting I will try and fill in some of your questions with respect to P3D V4.5 and V5.1.

I exclusively use this model. Here is a review. It is relatively cheap to purchase and appears to work better than the ported FSX versions.

https://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/content.php?17800-Perfect-Flight-Private-Flights-Lear-45

Now as for calibrating the aircraft.cfg file. What I have learnt over the years is, if you are prepared to cover alot of the simulator forums you will find people throwing in their twenty cents with respect to changing this or that value. As an exaple, I read an opinion from a real Learjet Pilot saying that the brakes are not strong enough. We put in his suggested change to the cfg file and found we didn't even need Reverse Thrusters ! Right for him, wrong for us.

My co pilot who is a real pilot doesn't like some of the flight characteristics and so we occasionally tweak them and then have to relearn how to fly again. There seems to be no universal 'right' settings for all the parameters.

Here is an example of changes we have made but are in no way correct due to a myriad of individual factors. For example, the calibration of the yoke or rudder pedals in FSUIPC will definitely change how the Lear flies.

Just look at Ron's cfg file for comparison.

[flight_tuning]
cruise_lift_scalar = 2.0
parasite_drag_scalar = 1.1
induced_drag_scalar = 4.0
elevator_effectiveness = 2.8
aileron_effectiveness = 4.0
rudder_effectiveness = 1.5 //1.0
pitch_stability = 3.0 //2.0
roll_stability = 1.1
yaw_stability = 2.0
elevator_trim_effectiveness = 1.5
aileron_trim_effectiveness = 1.3
rudder_trim_effectiveness = 1.3

As for sounds, as noted we have discussed this elsewhere.

That's a start. I'm off to the hangar to sort out a Elevator Trim issue in V5.1.

Ciao.

Mark S.

 

Thanks,

I've read a review or 2 on this package - not glowing. I will take your recommendation and use it with your changes. I also have an .air file editor.

Time to look at an advertised flight dynamics file and compare characteristics.

The attached is a screen shot of the download at FlyAwaySimulation.

I am also an exNavy pilot and have flown 2 aircraft that have been in accidents. Strange flight characteristics but trim kept it kosher.  A pain tho.

Additionally, I was looking more for a Hangar45 recommendation on flight characteristics.

I will also post what I find. Please also see my reply to Mark above.

I also asked about standards for switch activity. Are there any published or standard for Hangar45.

Where do you get your switch logic? The manuals don't really describe what happens with actions of a switch with the Flight Sim functionality.
An example are L & R Probe Anti-Ice. Flight Sim has Pitot Tube Heat (same as Probe Anti-Ice) on or off. No Left and Right. Is there a recommendation?
Or Windshield Anti-Ice. There is no windshield heat variable in P3D. Is there a Hangar45 recommendation.
There is no Nose Gear Hydraulic variable in P3D (I do have a list of FSX and P3D variables). There is a nose gear lock on/off. Is there a Hangar45 standard for that switch on the Gear/Hyd panel?
Are there standards for Hangar45 or does each simmer make up their own?
Thanks
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Hi Dave,

Very good questions about how we handle switch logic for variables that don't exist in the simulator.  Im looking for feedback from some of the super users like Ron, Mark, and Donny Ray on how best for Jet45 V2 to simulate these components outside of MSFS/P3D.  For the probes, what we'd expect is simply a change to the bus current and a CAS message when one of the probes is not on.  With Ron's Arduino modules and Jet45 V2, I can easily add this logic to detect the individual switches and act accordingly.  Same story for the other switches, with the hydraulic and nose steer switch likely having a bit more to simulate (i.e. modifying sim variables for hydraulic pressure etc.).  I don't believe the builders have yet done anything with these switches but tie the LED to the switch state which is easy enough to do with the wiring of the switch and the LED leads.

My goal is to actually simulate the function of those systems to some extent so you actually "see" something in the aircraft behavior.

 

 

Quote from Mark Speechley on January 27, 2021, 5:33 am

As an example, I read an opinion from a real Learjet Pilot saying that the brakes are not strong enough. We put in his suggested change to the cfg file and found we didn't even need Reverse Thrusters ! Right for him, wrong for us...

 

This is quite surprising to me. Ive actually turned the toe brake scalar down in my model. Otherwise when I touch the brakes the plane veers to one side or the other or stops on a dime.  The brake model in FS2020 seems a lot more realistic to me where you can press the pedals and get a proportional response in braking, similar to how the brakes in your car might feel. Ive played with the sensitivity settings in P3D without much improvement there. Maybe a combination of the sensitivity and the brake scalar.

Jason Hite FlightDeckSoft

Hi Dave,

All the things that your are asking about is exactly the reason why Jason and I are working so hard to create a v2.0 Lear45 sim.  Too many things are either missing or have big gray areas.

Jason hit most of the points you were asking about.  I will just add that in our early efforts to model the Lear45 sim, (v1.0) if a function was not available in the standard FSX or within the FSUIPC offsets, we would create some basic internal logic with the help of the InterfaceIT software and the Flight Deck Solutions SYS boards.

And as Jason stated, it boiled down to if a dummy switch was pressed, as an example, the Windshield Heat, it would simply light up the LED in the switch, not much more than that.   A little under half of switches and LEDs in our v1.0 Lear45 sims are dummies and use internal variables.

And this is the beauty of what the new Jet45 AAS v2.0 and the future Jet45 Systems Software will do for us all.  There will be no guess work on the part of anyone who is using it.  All the systems logic will be built into the software.  (But this is all still a work in progress)

Have I sent you my xml files?  But if you are not using the InterfaceIT software, I am not sure how much that would help you.

Hi again!

To Ron and Jason.

Ron, You never sent any XML files or FDS programs. I can read both.

Before I joined Hangar45, I modified all the XML gauges for the Lear. Many weren't working properly or the art was terrible. I still have them. The reason was mostly the PFD as many functions (e.g. Flight Director type CUE) weren't working, so I fixed it. Also added addition mouse objects that weren't in the base package.

A shame you can't retrofit the logic to Version 1. I assume most of the logic is for CAS messages and/or verbal warnings. Pretty extensive CAS discussion in the Quick Reference Handbook I sent Ron (I think he put it in Hangar45).

You all know I can't afford V2.

I didn't realize there were no switch standards set in the past. I hadn't done any real research myself yet either.

I have a friend on Facebook (my realtor for the home I'm in) who is a corporate Lear 45xr pilot. I can ask him questions you all may have.

Dave,

What do you mean by switch standards?  We have fully defined what switches you "should" be using to replicate the L45, however the AML switches are a bit pricey and many users have used other momentary and latching switches.  That being said, ANY switch that is a momentary or latching switch can do any function (except encoders) as long as you setup the FSUIPC offset programming right. Based on the offsets listing in the V1 offsets list, it tells you how to set FSUIPC offsets according to the switch state.

Jason Hite FlightDeckSoft

Dave wrote:

I didn't realize there were no switch standards set in the past. I hadn't done any real research myself yet either.

(Dave, between you and I it is difficult for us to continue trying to answer your questions when you say things like this above.)

Take a look at this thread HERE that documents every switch and function for V1.0. (Notice that this information was made available way back in 2012)  Near the end of the thread there are several documents made by myself and previous members that document all the hardware in the Lear45 to the best of our knowledge at the time.

HOWEVER, fast forward to 2021, the really good news is during the development of the new V2.0 sim, I have documented ALL the hardware into one inclusive, neat and clean document called the "Jet45 Hardware Pinout" which you can find HERE

No need for any other documents when it comes to the hardware found in the Lear45 home built Sim!

I have placed the Jet45 Hardware Pinout document in front of you on at least three occasions now.  I am interested in what you think of it.  Notice that every single piece of hardware is completely documented including function, poles, part numbers, color, legends and if it is guarded or not.

I spent a significant amount of time on this document not only to help develop the new Jet45 v2.0 but also to make it as easy as possible for everyone to determine what hardware to use in their sims.  Please take some of your time and read through it.  I think it will answer most all of your questions.  You do not have to be building V2.0 to get the information you are looking for.  The hardware in this document will work 100% with V1.0 Lear45 stuff.

I hope this helps.

Ron, There is plenty of AML, Toggle definition of the type to purchase. But unless one purchases an expensive manual, I can't find documentation (except Eric Tomlin's video on start and Alan's video on APU)  on how each panels swirches, button, etc. interface with each other or which FSUIPC / Flight Sim variables they are supposed to effect (without the real Lear manuals).

What Jet45 needs from Flight Sim as in th FGC which has input to the PFD, MIP (and perhaps the EICAS warnings). Yes V2.0 will address this but what about the simmers with V1.0.

This is for those that want to build their own panels.

Sorry Ron, the preliminary documentation you sent on the Arduino cards with the plug assignments is only effective if one purchases Jet45 V2.0 and Arduino cards and panels. If one wants to use their own panels and Arduino cards with Jet45 V2.0 (and V2.0 hex Arduino code) the pin assignments for Jet45 should be defines (input, output, leds) and are any control surfaces included in the new set of Arduino cards.

If hardware support and software support in the future is only for Jet45 V2.0 and Arduino Panels, so be it. Should be stated clearly to current and future Lear 45XR simmers. We need a choice to continue with Hangar45 or on our own with some tutorials.

It took a lot of questions and misinterpretatiion from you and Jason for me to have a clear picture.

If a simmer has to purchase manuals to code switches to use Jet45 V1.0 and FSUIPC and FSX, P3D or FS2020 so be it, but should be clearer in Hangar45.

Sorry, but I am signing off.

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