Quote from Hangar45 Admin on December 17, 2017, 10:09 am

(Original thread started on 03-03-13 by Eric Williams)

A lesson learned the hard way! I got some fantastic bezels from Vince, promptly interfaced the buttons via FDS and began flying. What he probably never expected was for someone to interface buttons via one board (FDS) and decide to interface the encoders via PoKeys.

 

If you are going to do this, be warned to modify the PCB's/wiring before you install. The 0v is common between the encoders and the buttons (on my bezels at least)- your interface boards will not like this.

 

A very simple trace snip is all I (or anyone else) need to do to sever these and bias the 0v separately between them. Actually the PFD even has a convenient spare conductor for this in my bezels. In my case I am just going to snip the ground connection on the encoder (hopefully) and solder on a new wire, no worries.

 

(Posted by Manfred on 03-03-13)

Hi Eric, thank you for the warning. This is all good info for someone totally new to all this. What made you realize they didn't like it? I can't think why there would be an issue as it is 0V. In some cases I have read that it is actually important that all the ground rails are connected. Very interesting.

 

(Posted by Eric Williams on 01-04-13)

Common grounds are fine for common loads in a circuit- but it's not the same for interface boards. The FDS board uses a separate ground path (0v) for each group of inputs. These cannot be tied together. The PoKeys uses a common ground for all. The Two boards hooked to one PC are not the same return path- in actuality the PoKeys in my case is not hooked to the PC supply/ground in any way- it is via data over Ethernet with its own 5V supply.

 

Long story short you can't tie things together when on separate cards- in my case I wired the bezels so long ago I had forgotten the connection style- to make matters worse I had actually added an additional ground wire (so I could use the leftover inputs on the FDS at a later date) This caused my silly mistake whereby I thought I had isolated the encoders to this ground when I built the bezels- silly me.

 

The simple solution to all this would be stick to one card PoKeys and all will be fine. In my case, I don't want to mess around getting the PoKeys to work with the buttons when FDS does it so simple and easy via InterfaceIT. And that I already have them all done.

 

For me, its just one little snip of the ground pins on the encoders and run a wire back to the PoKeys. Vince made the bezels so they can be accessed from the front so I shouldn't even have to disassemble. All is good.

 

(Posted by Alan Norris on 01-05-13)

In my case where the nuts are on the back of the DUs, I would have to remove the whole bezel. I have all mine running back to the PoKeys card so I should be good to go.

 

Does the EFIS have to be modified also? The EFIS has three ribbon cables, one for the buttons, one for the rotary switches and one for the rotary encoder. I have the rotary encoder going to my Pokeys card and the others to the FDS card. What do I have to do to get this to work without rewiring everything to the Pokeys card.

 

Also I thought I had the MFD and PFD wired entirely to the PoKeys card but I was mistaken. As it will be a RPITA to remove my bezels is there any way to do the modifications on the external wiring or will I just have to wire them all back to the PoKeys card?

 

(Posted by Eric Williams on 01-05-13)

Alan, if your EFIS is the same as mine, it's fine. Use an ohmmeter to verify. Very simple to check.

 

On the bezels-

1. You need to sever the ground at the encoder and wire it's own. You can't do that from outside the bezel.

-OR-

2. Wire EVERYTHING on a bezel to PoKeys.

 

(Posted by Alan Norris on 01-05-13)

So because the EFIS has separate circuits for the encoder and doesn't share a ground with the buttons, were good to go. I have pulled all my buttons on the DUs from the FDS card and will hook them to the PoKeys card. I assume the connections on the card all have to be set for digital input whether it's for an encoder or button right?

 

(Posted by Eric Williams on 01-05-13)

Encoders need to be set as encoders and on consecutive pins. Buttons are Digital inputs.

 

The only issue I see is what drove me to use the FDS in the first place, how you are going to assign offsets via PoKeys? I don't know of any easy way to assign the JET45 offsets via POKEYS currently (except the encoders via FSSymphony) PoKeys software does not "speak" FSUIPC- you need an intermediate program such as Marks RMU software, SIOC, of FSSymphony. Although there may be an easy way I have just not heard of?

 

I can get the developer of FSSymphony to add the remaining Jet45 offsets if there is demand. Most basic FSX stuff is already included BTW. But all this also depends if you are using the 56e, as the USB version is not supported.

 

(Posted by Mark L. on 01-05-13)

I think it's important to note, that I can see where FSSymphony can run the DU's, but don't expect to make this work with the RMU's!

 

Certain 'States' are maintained when pushing one of the buttons so that when you rotate a encoder it knows what offset to update. You can't do this without some logic behind the scenes.

 

(Posted by Vince C. on 01-06-13)

Interesting reading about my panels and their interfacing. A few notes about what has been said:

"I think it's important to note, that I can see where FSSymphony can run the DU's, but don't expect to make this work with the RMU's!" - Mark

 

This is true if you want to use just one PoKeys to run the whole avionic set. If you plan to use two PoKeys, then you can use FSUIPC to assign the various keys as joystick inputs or as keystokes. Each PoKeys of any type (55U,56E,56U) can allow 32 of its inputs to be seen like joystick buttons and since there are 28 needed for each side of the cockpit (MFD,PFD,RMU) you are good to go using two PoKeys.

 

"PoKeys software does not "speak" FSUIPC- you need an intermediate program such as Marks RMU software, SIOC, of FSSymphony." - Whitestar01

As I said before, this is not true. FSUIPC can talk to PoKeys just like it would with any Joystick or keyboard interface. It's all a matter of configuration.

 

"So the EFIS also has to be modified too?" - English Rebel

The EFIS doesn't need any mod. The dual encoder is separated from buttons.

 

I have to suggest that the best solution is using JUST the PoKeys for my panels. If you want to do it yourself then you will need two Pokeys 55/56, one for each side of the cockpit. The hybrid solution that Eric Williams is investigating is interesting but needs a mod to the circuitry of the DU panels. This lead me to think that a future revision of the MFD and PFD will have a jumper selector that will allow switching between a single ground for all the keys+encoders and two grounds to one for the buttons and one for the encoders so that people that want to make a more complex interfacing will be able to do it without modifying anything.

 

(Posted by Eric Williams on 01-06-13)

Nice Vince. The jumper idea is great. Although I'd like to reiterate to the others that mod is a very easy one to the existing bezels. I did the Pilot side DU's last night in about 15 minutes- without removing the bezels from the MIP. I simply removed the front access panel and used a Dremel with a sharp nosed burring bit to nip the encoder ground pin above the PCB. Then I just soldered on a ground and fished it through, which is easier than one may think due to the space Vince left though the bezel hole/size of the MIP cutout.

 

NOTE:  Handy trick I have found when working on the bezels later- stretch a piece of masking tape across the front of all thew buttons. They then stay nicely in place when you go to remount.

 

As for programming via PoKeys, I think we have to parallel thoughts, I should have clarified. I am using the 56E- I know no way to get FSUIPC to acknowledge the inputs as the card is not directly connected to any PC. I need an intermediate program. Unless I have missed some new development in the 56e? I'm fairly certain I tired once to see if FSUIPC could detect the inputs over the network- and it didn't.

 

Alan should have no trouble with the USB version.

 

(Posted by Alan Norris on 01-06-13)

Eric, thanks for the advice you gave me over the phone today, very helpful. I'll just run my DU buttons to the PoKeys card and be done with it. That way I can sell the second FDS 2X card I have.