Quote from Hangar45 Admin on December 18, 2017, 10:29 am

(Original thread started on 08-28-16 by Ron Rollo)

I am getting close to wanting to upgrade my main video card in my Server-PC computer in a few months. So I wanted to get everyone's input on what they think is the best bang for the buck. I am looking to spend between $600 and $900 for a video card.

 

So far, I have read a lot of good things about the EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 FTW GAMING ACX 3.0 8GB card: 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487245

 

Currently, my Server-PC is using a EVGA GTX580 3GB card which is OK and was top of the line when I built my computer back in later 2011. I will more than likely move that card to my Client1-PC to replace a EVGA GeForce GT520 1GB card which runs the LCD monitor for DU1 and DU2 and the LCD screen for all the center gauges and RMUs. A 3GB card is complete overkill for the cockpit LCD screens but who knows, maybe the upgrade in this area will be noticeable as well. I really like EVGA brands, I think that is all I have ever used do far.  Let me know what you guys are thinking and looking at!

 

(Posted by Shane Barnes on 08-29-16)

Seems that the 1080 has become the card of choice and so far all I have seen is good performance reviews. I base this on reading the forums on other FS sites. I've not seen any negative comments about the card and it is the card I am considering when I upgrade unless something better has come along.

 

(Posted by Mark Speechley on 08-29-16)

Righto, I've been sitting on this for awhile and have had conflicting views. The problem is whether you are CPU bound which if I read correctly you have a 2600KCPU at 3.4ghz. So that means that the CPU should be the bottleneck and so the 1080 will be overkill for your setup.

 

I refer you to this thread esp the post from Beau from LM regarding this:

http://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6315&t=119577

 

Also if you check out this benchmark you might find bang for buck the GTX 1070 will do the same job and cheaper. Also consider buying two and SLI, but that is another story.

 

http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/high_end_gpus.html

 

As I have mentioned elsewhere someone has run his three screens with an NVidia Titan x. Too pricey and availability too hard at this stage. As for me, I am leaning to 2 GTX1070's.

 

So to summarize for you Ron. To get the ' best' response from the GTX1080 you may need to upgrade the CPU, mother board, RAM and overclock CPU to at least 4.6GHZ. or GTX1070 which from the benchmark rates very well for less $$. Also if you buy two cards for the SLI you will need to purchase the separate 2 way HD Bridge to join them. Also in your case you need to see what connectors/converters you may need for your projectors.

 

Additionally, I just received an email regarding the apparent loss of a potential few FPS when flying. All helps when getting those frames up, so worth a look. Upgrading the Nvidia driver does not need this added piece of software, "Nvidia GeForce Experience"

 

https://fsxtimes.wordpress.com/2016/05/21/357-get-rid-of-the-geforce-experience/

 

(Posted by Ron Rollo on 08-29-16)

Mark, you have a lot of good information to look through. I want to upgrade but at the same time, I don't want to spend a ton of cash. Later on down the road when all the physical aspects of the sim are complete I will go full gas on a new computer.

 

I do have the TH2Go unit that may make things easier. However, if two cards with my setup are necessary, that is not a problem. Like I said, I am looking for the biggest bang for the buck. And like you said, Mark, the 1070 may be a better choice with the computer I am using. If I get better results, that is all I am looking for!

 

By the way, I am over clocked to 4.3GHZ.

 

(Posted by Mark Speechley on 09-04-16)

For anyone else thinking of upgrading the GPU. Three more things to take into account.

 

1. the 1080 and 1070 are 10.75" long so make sure they fit.

2. dual slot

3. From google'regarding the PSU.

 

The GeForce GTX 1080 Founders Edition requires just one 8-pin connector and has a TDP of 180W with a power supply recommendation of 500W.

 

Just an update for those interested. I've ordered a Gigabyte G1 Gaming GTX 1070, which hopefully will turn before the end of the week. I'll install it and then fire-up P3D and see what all the hype is about.

 

I am interested in how it performs with the three projector screens from the one card. At the moment I have 2 GTX 760's in SLI mode. I've given myself the option of purchasing a second and running in SLI mode so I'll keep you updated.

 

I could've gone GTX 1080 but it is A$1100 thereabouts as against A$685 with only a 15% difference in performance at best. We'll see!

 

UPDATE:

It's so funny. Whilst waiting for this card I have had itchy credit card fingers to get another and SLI. There is no doubt that on many new games the frame rates can be quite 'exhilarating' at 1080p resolution. However the kids of today want to run at 4k res so much more demanding as seen in reduced but still excellent frame rates.

 

You and I though are in the situation with our projectors of not going past 1080p. In fact correct me but your projectors have even less resolution ? In that case one 1070 or 1080 will work beautifully .....on idle.

 

The problem we have is the benchmarks that are seen on the net comparing games are not worth much for us as FSX/P3d is still CPU bound ( but P3d is improving in leaps and bounds transferring jobs to the GPU). So we will always have a 'limiter'. One other little annoyance is that I still use Win7, which works like a charm. There are people showing up on the Geforce Forums that have stutters in their games ( we wouldn't know about that in flight simulators would we !!!??). The fix seems to be upgrade to Win10 due to the Direct X drivers.  It never ends!

 

You and I also have the warping software so I need to reconfigure that now that I'll have one card. I need to also tell Immersive Display which projector goes with which screen. Also Immersive Display has updated to v2 which I will need to purchase again at some stage. Dongle next time, as we are now gradually upgrading our hardware.

 

https://fly.elise-ng.net/index.php/order

 

In summary, I have to try the one 1070 and see whether I'll get benefit from 2 in SLI.

 

(Posted by Mark Speechley on 09-17-16)

Well, we finally got the Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1070 installed. It did take a bit of mucking around as you have

 

1 x DVI

1 x HDMI

3 x Display Port

 

So you have to make sure that you have enough converters for those Display Ports.

 

Second temp problem is that if you read the Surround instructions ( if you enable that of course) it says that you can choose any connector for the accessory display ONCE you enable Surround. Well the actual case is plug everything in first and then choose what will be the accessory.

 

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/surround/system-requirements

 

'Once Surround is enabled, users can use any connector for the Accessory Display'.

 

You then have to modify your P3d.cfg file entry to change from the previous video card to the 1070. Just a matter of changing the numbers.

 

Next delete the P3D Shader directory in the Appdata subdirectory.

 

Once that is done fire up P3D......and hopefully starts. In my case still v2.5. When the scenario loads WOW !!!

 

I now have almost everything on max settings and still averaging 60fps. Three projector screens max settings plus stormy weather and was going from between 40-60 fps just WOW. I have spent a bit of time on different scenarios and the only time it got knee capped was nigh time Hong Kong with max settings. change to day and all good to go again. Will need more experimenting to see where the loss of fps was coming from at Kai-Tak.

 

For those of you who haven't seen this yet please download and read. Very good advice with settings for P3D.

 

Explains also what settings are CPU or GPU bound:

http://www.avsim.com/topic/494633-prepar3d-guide/

 

All I can say is that anyone contemplating a video card upgrade do it now. I have proven that the 1070 works terrifically. I can only imagine the 1080 will be better again but you have to look at the price difference for the increased FPS over the 1070. Plenty of sites will show you that 2 x 1070's in SLI are way better than the 1080.

 

The disclaimer to all of this is of course your CPU and whether OC'ed as to how much of a gain you will get. The next point to make is the projectors only have a max 1080p resolution which is easier for the cards than having to pump out 4k resolution if you have a monitor setup.In that case probably the GTX 1080 or SLI 2x 1070's would be the right choice.

 

In summary WOW. I can only imagine the visuals for P3D v3.5 would be much better again. How much the 1070 performs then?

 

Never forget. No matter how much effort you put into building the cockpit, it will only be as good as your outside visuals. Hope this helps. Any questions?

 

(Posted by Ron Rollo on 09-18-16)

Sounds like I need one 1070 based on the hardware that I currently have. I think you said at one point the 1080 would not benefit me any further due to hardware restrictions.

 

I will be using my TrippleHead2Go. You don't see that being a problem do you? Or should I spend the money on extra cables and connectors? In any case, I will probably try to use the TH2Go and then run it the way you have it set up to see if there is a difference.

 

(Posted by Mark Speechley on 09-19-16)

The 1080 has better specs than the 1070 but at the resolutions that we are using with our projectors we can't get the most out of them. The issue is the 'bang for buck', cost vs minor increase. You will still need some adapters for the display ports on the video card. If you don't use your tripleheadtogo then you just use Nvidia surround for $0. How is that for a deal. Other than that, for Christmas, treat yourself to 3 new 1080p projectors and a 1070 or 1080 card and you surely dance a little jig.

 

(Posted by Ron Rollo on 10-30-16)

Just ordered this card:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487259

 

EVGA GeForce GTX 1070 FTW GAMING ACX 3.0, 08G-P4-6276-KR, 8GB GDDR5, RGB LED, 10CM FAN, 10 Power Phases, Double BIOS, DX12 OSD Support (PXOC)

 

I do plan on using the TH2Go unit with this card. If it presents a problem we can always go to plan B. The EVGA 580 GTX (the card being replaced) is going to go in Client1-PC for DU1, DU2, DU3 and DU4. It might be overkill but what else am I going to do with this really nice card!

 

(Posted by Mark Speechley on 10-31-16)

Way to go buddy! The jump from your 580 to a 1070 should be significant jump in frame rates. Which means turn the eye candy way up. Your projectors are at a lower resolution than a 1080p HD projector so the computations will be less.

 

Your going to have a great time sitting in your cockpit at 60-80 fps waiting for that JAX airport to be released!

 

By the way you should get software to overclock the 1070. It is usually pretty easy to do now and if it doesn't generate too much heat, more visuals is the payback. Also did you OC your CPU ? Even if you click on the automatic OC preset in the bios you should get more horsepower out of it. I'm sure you knew it but that is what the K in 2600K is, in case anyone else didn't know. If it was designed to be OC then consider it as a bonus.

 

Why I am harping on the OC and upgrading is because I own a lot of add-ons esp from ORBX . Throw in clouds, storms, cities etc and even the GTX1080 can be brought to its knees. So any tuning of your hardware (within reason) will help. Congrats on the jump to the 1070, you will not be disappointed.

 

(Posted by Ron Rollo on 11-01-16)

Thanks Mark! Before I forget, we did overclock the CPU to something like 4.3. Not the fastest but respectable. Maybe in another three years I will break down and spend some serious money on a really fast computer.

 

It was five years ago when I built the first two computers and purchased this really bad @$$ EVGA GTX580 3GB video card. At the time, it was one of the best you could buy for the money. As it turns out, it is still going to be used to display DU1, DU2, DU3 and DU4. I thought about it today and decided to use this card to display the DU's because they have more graphics moving around compared to the RMUS and the standby gauges. This means we will have to move some hardware around, re-cable, rename and move some programs around to get everything working properly.

 

So in reality, it is like I am getting two new video cards. One for the main visual system and one (the older EVGA GTX580 3GB) for the the DU's. I am really excited to see where this gets us. I say "us" because every time we try something different we learn from it and the guys who are following can do so while making fewer mistakes. Well, I would not call anything we do a mistake, more like a learning experiences!

 

As soon as we get the video cards installed I will report my findings including FPS reports, overall graphics and performance.

 

New Flash! The 1070 card arrived three minutes ago:

 

Still waiting on some video connectors to arrive and then find some time. Unfortunately it might not be until November 17th before I can start reporting back on this. Keep an eye out on this.

 

(Posted by Ron Rollo on 11-19-16)

Greg and I got the 1070 card installed into the Server-PC. Remember, it replaced the 580 card that I had. All in all, we did see better performance and was able to move most of the texture and scenery sliders over several notches. Frame rates increased anywhere from 5fps to 15fps depending on where you were and the complexity of the scenery. The visuals seemed to be more stable without as many stutters as before.

 

Before I go on much further, we also overclocked the CPU to 4.2ghz and removed hyper threading in the BIOS. We saw greater performance by doing these two things. The hyper threading was interesting to me because when in hyper threading mode, it tricks your computer into thinking that there are eight cores instead of four. The flight sim as we all know is heavily CPU bound and for some reason, flight sim (FSX or P3D) like it better if Hyper threading is turned off in the BIOS.

 

We moved the 580 card over to Client1-PC to make good use of it and made it so that it now runs the two LCD screens that handle DU1, DU2, DU3 and DU4. Other than a Pokeys card, that is pretty much all Client1-PC handles. There is no excuse for the DU's to look crappy. What I did find was that there was still some stutters with the gauges on the DU's which means it has to be the network that is causing it. I will look into that further. Anyone out there have smooth operation of the DU's over the network?

 

Client2-PC now handles the center monitor which has the RMUs and the three standby gauges. The video driver that was on this computer was just a few weeks old and it turned my gauges magenta again. We had to roll the video driver back FOUR YEARS to find a driver that will run the standby gauges without them turning magenta. This really needs to be fixed by Dave Ault or possibly have another set of standbys developed by another vendor. We also ran into a small hiccup where the gauges want to automatically install in the Program Files (x86). The gauges went nuts and I had to uninstall them and reinstall them directly on the C drive. They are happy now.

 

All in all, the changes were positive with only a few growing pains. I still have to find a way to make my Server-PC desktop LCD the primary screen and the three projectors the secondary screen while still display the P3D visual system on the big screen. It is a little backwards right now but I will get that sorted out.

 

The 1070 is going to help boost the performance of the sim and now allow me to fly into some of my favorite addon scenerys like KDCA, KTPA, KMIA and KATL. Now these airports are now flyable. Even though the frame rates may be as low as 16 to 20, you would think it was much higher. Almost stutter free. Still some more testing to do but the preliminary test are that everything is positive.

 

I need to do some more experimenting with the settings in P3D when it comes to what is CPU bound and what is GPU bound. Se this thread: http://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=119517

 

While my CPU is always pegged out, the new 1070 card is idling right along at 30%. This would change I am sure if I flew into heavy weather but it is interesting. Remember that I am still flying P3D v2.5. P3D v3 is suppose to be more and more GPU bound. I will keep testing and keep you posted on this.

 

I will say this real quick, next on the list of things to get to increase performance is the latest and greatest water cooled i7 processor with faster RAM!

 

UPDATE:  I was able to get the main screen to pop up on the desktop LCD screen so that all programs open and start on the desktop LCD screen and P3D starts on the big projector screen. I simply switched it in the display settings. I guess things had to establish themselves first.

 

Also, the standby's are working great although I will probably still override the WideClient Priority to HIGH.

 

One other thing that I found was that the HDMI to VGA does not work. This means I am also looking forward to some new higher resolution projectors with HDMI connectors. I will be able to eliminate the TH2Go unit, one less thing to worry about and one less program running in the background. (But this is about 18 months away.)

 

Test flight out of KFHB to KTPA. I started with 36fps on the ground at KFHB, 60fps in the air at fl23 and 18fps at KTPA. That might sound low but it is a good solid number with no stutters and everything looks fluid. You would think 30fps at KTPA if you did not know any better. More testing!

 

(Posted by Mark Speechley on 11-21-16)

I'm so excited that you have caught up with the video card. You still have more wow factor to go especially when you upgrade to 1080p projectors.

 

I re-installed my second 1070 and have them linked in SLI. May I say that I have a very extensive library of ORBX and other scenery from around the world and I can tell you that I have to 'still' frequently keep changing the settings because of the fluctuating FPS. The 1070 has enabled us to up the sliders ( not all of them to the full right unfortunately) with enhanced visuals. However some of the airports and cities have seen the frames drop significantly to the extent of crash to desktop if your not quick enough to catch it. Canberra and Heathrow are good examples. However I flew from Stewart to Terrace in the PNW with great visuals and frame rates.

 

I think it is a matter of practice and remembering what places are the memory hogs when it comes to default settings. Here is my tip, I did notice though in my setup that if I turned OFF Vertical sync that the fps and stuttering improved.

 

Also it is one thing to turn off Hyperthreading, but you 'may' be better off if you choose the right affinity mask for your processor in the P3d.cfg file instead of leaving it to default. I have tested a few and the right or wrong one can make a significant difference. Lastly did you delete the shader folder when you installed the 1070 ? This must be done so that Prepar3d can recompile the graphics for the new card. Please keep us informed.

 

(Posted by Ron Rollo on 11-21-16)

I will look into these tips and see if any make a difference or not. This is the first I have heard about the shader folder. If I delete it, P3D will create a new one? Where is the shader folder?

 

(Posted by Chris Capkalu on 11-22-16)

Gentlemen, I'd like to recommend you the software "SimStarter NG".  Especially for home pits one of the best all round solutions out there.

 

Dozen of features, including start of programs on network PC's and a full customizable start behavior of P3D/FSX. All simulator settings can be done BEFORE you start P3D/FSX plus editing all available config files (profile-based).

 

For example my personal SimStarter profile executes all necessary add-on programs (like Active Sky, VATSIM client, Jet45 etc.) and p3d itself (includes adjusting of preconfigured settings within P3D) with one click.

 

Please have a look at Aerosoft.com or Simmarket.com for info and purchase.

 

Ron, SimStarter NG deletes the shader folder with one click. It will be rebuild again upon executing Prepar3D. It's always a good idea to delete the shader cache after changing video settings in P3D/FSX.

 

(Posted by Mark Speechley on 11-22-16)

Thanks Chris, worth a look to streamline the start process.

 

Ron, there are plenty of post in P3D forum and others when upgrading your video card.

 

Look at this thread and is summarized in the last post by Snave:

http://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6306&t=119880&p=138646&hilit=delete+shader+directory#p138646

 

I am at work but there was a beaut Prepar3d guide written by Rob Ainscough a few months ago that probably has this all written down in easy steps. If you can't find it on P3D or Avsim site then PM me and I''ll send it.

 

(Posted by Ron Rollo on 11-11-16)

Hey Chris, I don't know if I could use that program to start my P3D software because I already have to use Fly Elise NG to start the sim in order to get the visuals to warp on the big screen. I will still take a look at it to see if there are any can't live without advantages for my setup.

 

Hey Mark, I was able to successfully delete the old shader folder and let P3D create new ones. For anyone new at this "deleting shaders folder stuff" DO NOT delete your ShadersHLSL folder in your main P3D programs folders. Read the forum that Mark pointed to above.

 

(Posted by Mark Speechley on 11-28-16)

Ron, how is your GTX1070/P3D traveling now?

 

I lashed out and added my second 1070 which had allowed me to up the sliders and more inclement weather (to a point) with reasonable fps. I am certainly flying more in the Pacific Northwest and Alaska for the scenery.

 

I did notice a lot of stuttering with the dual SLI. One chap on a forum did say that he turned off Vertical sync and that made a difference to stuttering and fps. It certainly did the same for me.

 

Long story short.

1/ Lots of trials of settings.

2/ Quite a few third party airports are frame killers so you need to be prepared as you get closer.

3/ REX hopefully will be bringing out their Weather program which is the competition for Active Sky. It is supposed to be designed to reduce the frame rates that clouds seem to have with our simulators. Keep us updated.

 

(Posted by Ron Rollo on 11-29-16)

I have also noticed that some third party airports are frame killers more than others. But with that said, I have noticed that overall, the frame rates have improved and that I can now fly into airports that I could not fly into before. KATL and KDCA are now flyable where as before it was a slide show.

 

I did take care of the shader file but did not notice any difference one way or the other. I will keep looking and monitoring that. There are a few other things that I need to check on but for the most part, I think I am there. If I decide to fly into a big airport, I will have to adjust the sliders. I think that is going to be the nature of the beast until further notice.

 

(Posted by Mark Speechley on 11-29-16)

You and I are still dinosaurs, flying P3D 2.5. There are enough threads in the forums that show P3D V3 will improve fps with no or very little changing of the cfg file. Only up for you and I when we upgrade. There are a few squawkers complaining about running out of memory in v3.4 but everyone is different and can depend in some cases on their add-ons. All part of the fun !

 

I flew towards Canberra a few weeks ago and didn't even get to line up on final approach before crash to desktop out of memory error. You learn what settings to turn down. Flying with Peter to Valdez Pioneer field tonight. Just bought from ORBX as have specials on.