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Windows 10 Pro and Networking

Hi,

Just put 3 PCs together for the Sim. All are refurbished Lenovo desktops. Came with Windows 10 Pro (latest release updated). I have a mesh router for the home but attached these PCs to each other and the router with a switch. All connections are Ethernet not WiFi. IP addresses are available for all PCs.

Everything is working fine. All installed OK. Internet available from all PCs. All graphics cards fine (Server PC with 2 cards - 1 with 4 HDMI ports). All PCs have SSD hard drives and the Server is an I7 CPU the others I5. All have 16 Gig memory. All cost no more than $800.

All PCs can see three home computers (they are Win 10 Home on WiFi). But they can't see each other. No big issue as long as they all have internet and I can move files with a portable USB HD I have.

I have 2 questions:

1. Has anyone had the same problem and solved it? How? I have followed all Microsoft instructions.

2. I hope that WideClient (Air Manager, SimConnect) will work without Windows connectivity. If they do, #1 above is no big deal.

Can anyone help?

Hey Dave,

Several years ago I tired to move to Windows10 but after it decided on it's own to do a 3am update to itself, it removed several of my needed programs.  Long story short, I did not have time to keep installing the programs I need and  moved back to Windows7.

With that said, if we want to move forward to the new MSFS2020, we will be forced to move to Windows10 like it or not.  I have been putting off the move until I have no choice but to update to Windows10.  The good news is they have had almost five years to straighten out the early issues I was seeing and hopefully it will be a smooth transition.

It sounds like for the most part you have transitioned without a lot of headaches.  One thing that I do wonder is if the Windows10 'Home" version is the way to go or should we be using the 'Professional" version?  I think Mark has all Windows10 machines.

Another question is do all three computers need to be Windows10?  I would love to keep the two client machines Windows7 and only make the Server a 10 machine.  The question is networking between them.

Time to chime,

Well , in my case I have four computers. two are Win 10 and 2 Win 7.

My opinion is this. Running a network is the key so any Win Pro edition that gives you more options within a network environment would be preferred, but AT THE LEAST for the server.

Wideclient has served me well for each client communicating with the server. However through the years it has also part contributed to most of my software problems, with programs going offline and having to be restarted mid flight. I don't think it is wideclient itself, I think it is more to do with old programs like Interface IT etc not being updated ( I think 2015 was the last update ) and having constant windows updates, which could throw very frequent spanners. To top that off, my next, biggest grief was USB. Over the years how many standards do we have now ? How many old hardware that needs to be updated and can't and using a USB standard that you hope is backward compatible. For example V2.0 plugged in to a Ver 3.0. Next with sooooo many usb's in the sim you need usb hubs. Ver 2.0, Ver 3.0, mixed 2 and 3, powered or passive ? Next, how old is your computers motherboard and how many usb ports does it have ? Can it handle usb 3.0 ? Does your usb2.0  hub/port have enough power capability for the combined usb 2.0's that you are plugging in ?

Are your win 7 drivers still acceptable ? Are there new Win10 drivers for older hardware ?

Do you have enough power points and power boards for everything at the nose end ? Just think. P3D has options for 3 sound sources. 1/ Sim sounds 2/ Voice playback and 3/ Voice Recording. (2 and 3 are for headsets). This setup will require two sound 'cards', which can ba an internal sound card apart from your mobo sound. Or a usb sound card, or an external sound card such as a soundblaster. Next, you will need an amplifier and speakers so that you can hear the engines, ATC etc. You might want your sim to vibrate and/or your seats to vibrate, that will require transducers, which will require more power.

https://www.daytonaudio.com/product/1119/hdn-8-weatherproof-sound-exciter-transducer

So many choices when you are finishing the actual building.

So getting back to the original question. Dave has three computers and he has problems with the network.With my setup basically the 2 Win 10's play nice but the Win7's will talk to some but not others. Go figure ! I have tried everything to get two to talk to each other , for years, still with no joy. However, without Wideclient, I would be in strife, as at least it  works when communicating with the server.  Now for those with an MFD and an FMS it gets interesting. If you have them on the same computer yippee. However the MFD needs to read the flight Plan generated by the FMS. If that is on another computer things can get interesting,especially if the two computers wont talk through the normal explorer. The only way I have gotten it to work, IN MY CASE, is to Map a network drive. If the computers name doesn't suffice, then use the computer IP address. sometimes nothing works because it is an invisible space or a comma. Sometimes WTF, who knows, here is my foot through the box !

Summary.

Consider which software goes with which client computer.

Consider which MIP and CDU video screens will go to which computer.

Consider which clients are talking to each other.If you can't get them to talk you'may have to combine software on the same computer that need to communicate, eg MFD and FMS.

Will you have enough USB ports and the right versions for each computer.

Wideclient works, but occasionally I have had to restart it, if there was a traffic overload. (Turning framerate or visual settings down has sometimes helped ).

So apart from straight out networking problems there is alot to consider when designing which of your computers will get what software and hardware.

..................and don't forget to have fun.

Mark S.

Wow Mark,

Appreciate your work and time spent.

I solved my stupid problem. Bad Ethernet cable.  Who da thunk. The PC I couldn't reach had internet and router connectivity. As soon as I changed cables, I was fine.

I have 3 PCs for the Sim. I have a 1/2 Sim on the port side. Each PC is Win 10 Pro, has SSD and 16 Gig memory. 2 I5 CPUs and server with I7. All PCs have 8 USB ports.

Wonder if the P3D sound can run off client with FSUIPC?

I will do some research on the CAT5 wires. Lesson learned. If something doesn't work, change the cable first.

Mark, my experience is Win 7 has network sharing problems due to Homegroup. Hard to get it working. Very hard networking Win 7 with Win 10.

 

Dave wrote:

Mark, my experience is Win 7 has network sharing problems due to Homegroup. Hard to get it working. Very hard networking Win 7 with Win 10.

 

This makes me feel better about my ability to work through a networking problem.  I thought it must be me doing something wrong setting up Homegroup within Windows7.  I feel I was barely able to get all my computers working and communicating with one another but the process took several days of trial and error.

My thought process was the concept of setting up a Windows7 Homegroup was straight forward and the software engineers certainly have everything right.  Right?  After all, what software company is bigger and has more resources available than Microsoft?  On top of that, I was using three brand new Windows7 Pro Edition on three fresh and new computers.  In other words, no excuses for running into trouble.

As it turns out, that is all I had was trouble and I either stumbled on a way to get the computers to communicate or got lucky.  The messed up thing about the process is I can not tell you with certainty what I had to do to get to that point which is not the way we want to be solving and documenting problems for others to learn from.

Bottom line, I hope that Windows 10 has this all sorted out and it's as simple as it should be to share real time information across a small band of computers.

 

For the record Dave, there was probably nothing wrong with your Ethernet cable.  It just was not the right one for the job.  These days with the computers we are trying to run, if you try to use anything less than a CAT7 Ethernet cable, you are are going to find trouble.

 

Take a look at this below:

The standard defines several classes of twisted-pair copper interconnects, which differ in the maximum frequency for which a certain channel performance is required:

Class A: up to 100 kHz using elements category 1

Class B: up to 1 MHz using elements category 2

Class C: up to 16 MHz using elements category 3

Class D: up to 100 MHz using elements category 5e

Class E: up to 250 MHz using elements category 6

Class EA: up to 500 MHz using elements category 6A (Amend. 1 and 2 to ISO/IEC 11801, 2nd Ed.)

Class F: up to 600 MHz using elements category 7

Class FA: up to 1000 MHz using elements category 7A (Amend. 1 and 2 to ISO/IEC 11801, 2nd Ed.)

 

You can see clearly that if you have an old CAT3 cable laying around that is only capable of handling 16 MHz of data where this will quickly cause issues.  This is an example of something that I know way too much about that I wish I knew nothing about!  We should just be able to plug it in if it fits and done! LOL

Ron,

The chinese have an old proverb

"When the student is ready, the teacher shall appear"

Well blow me over with that cable information. Maybe the ehternet cable transmitting the  Wideclient or Interface IT data couldn't handle it. Well when I have my sim, that now looks like Spaghetti Bolognaise, put back together again, I will surely check that out. Also Dave is living proof  with his cable solution.

I just might sleep better tonight, thankyou.

Thanks for your input.

The ethernet cables I have are all Cat5 or 6. I was project manager for the network upgrade at the City of Houston finishing in 2011. Would never buy less than Cat5.

Most PCs ran Win7 Pro. But with Domain, not Homegroup. The domain server defined groups and security (no Windows firewall).

Something interesting I found in Win10. Using Advanced System Settings. Two ways to get there.

Newest upgrades (just upgraded to Oct 2020 upgrade): Not available. Not needed.

Older Upgrades: PC Icon Properties (right click on Icon) > Andvanced System at left of properties window > On Computer Name tab > Choose NET Wizard (center Box) > Select Home network (not Office) on all Win10 PCs. As I have no Win7, not sure the is there.

Ensure Workgroup is the Same for all PCs on Sim network.

I keep the Firewall shut off but ensure the router to the internet has a robust Firewall. If not, I would unplug my Ethernet switch (how I connect my Sim PCs WiFi too slow) when internet not needed).

I would recommend the latest Win10 upgrade. I've done that (time consuming but worth it). No issues once upgraded.

If you noticed, Win10 has no Homegroup, MS removed choice in Sharing Center. BTW, ensure password required is OFF in sharing center and sharing is setup as MS recommends.