Quote from Hangar45 Admin on December 15, 2017, 10:38 am

(Original thread started on 02-16-09 by Ron Rollo)

I found a few minutes to pull apart the 15.6" Acer Wide Screen LCD (reconditioned) that I ordered for $79.00. I am happy to say that it is going to work like a champ!. When the LCD is set standing on it's end, the maximum horizontal LCD viewing area is 7.875" after the image is stretch. This gives me at least .125" on either side of the standby gauge holes cut out of the aluminum MIP face plate. The other neat thing about this "take apart process" is that I found that the monitor buttons (On/Off etc..) are on a ribbon and can be relocated to the back of the LCD. (This is my first time taking one of these apart so I may be telling some of you things you already know.)

 

The really good news is that I do not have to redraw the MIP and move the standby gauges closer to each other, and I have plenty of room for the two 15" LCD on both sides. This may not be the perfect LCD, but it is going to work!

 

Outside: 8.5" x 14.375" (8 1/2" x 14 3/8")

Inside: 7.75 x 13.625" (7 3/4" x 13 5/8")

 

 

The model number to this Acer is X163WbWM 15.6". Research from our CAD drawings indicate that this Acer will fit under the glare shield with about a half inch to spare.

 

(Posted by Mark L. on 02-17-09)

Confirmed, the KDS 15.6" widescreen has exactly the same dimensions as the Acer 15.6" I tore it apart tonight and measured.

 

(Posted by Kris Stow on 01-25-11)

I was looking around for the 15.6" Wideview LED/LCD center monitor for the MIP and found this:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6089023&CatId=5469

 

I-Inc IK161ABB 16" Widescreen LED Back lit Monitor:

79.00$ Not bad.

 

(Posted by Eric Williams on 01-25-11)

Hi Kris. I just bought two of these from Tigerdirect for my build. I will be using them for the PFD/MFD's as I'm making a slightly nonstandard cockpit.

 

So far the first one is working great for my panel with Jet45 Demo. I have noticed that it does have some abnormal areas vertically where pixels appear wider than others, but I have chosen to keep it as this doesn't show up at all when displaying the PFD MFD. I'm fairly certain I could return it if I had to.

 

These things are extremely light! There is almost nothing to them. The brightness is quite impressive as well. I also really like that the screen is glossy rather than a matte finish for my gauges.

 

One other thing I have noticed is that you really need to be centered in the viewing angle. Once you move away from center vertically, the colors begin to distort quite quickly. This seems to be more noticeable in the vertical direction than horizontal.

 

Unfortunately, this is not the monitor you would want to place "on-end" in portrait mode. The first unit tested showed high levels of image degradation when viewed from the sides. When the monitor is oriented horizontal as for normal use- it performs very well.

 

(Posted by Ron Rollo on 01-26-11)

Hey Eric, thank you very much for running these test, although I am not pleased with what I am seeing. They appear to be doing the same thing that our current LCD/LED monitors are doing.

 

However, I think you were traveling 30 inches from the center left and right. Actually, the pilot's POV (point of view) is only 12 inches from the center of the center monitor. (You better really like your Copilot!) There would be no need to view the center screen from extreme angles at 30 inches away. The MIP after all is only 54 inches across. Also, the pilot's POV will be between approximately 24 inches away or back from the MIP.

 

As I was watching your video, I attempted to pause it at approximately 12 inches off center to see how bad the distortion was. It is hard to tell if it is better than what we currently have. If you do run another test, dim the back ground lights. Part of the problem (in the video) might be background glare.

 

I posted this picture up elsewhere but this is what got me thinking that "LED" technology is the way to go. Wal Mart has these marketing 15.6" portrait LED's on the face of their end caps promoting different products. They are the exact size that we need AND, when viewed at ANY angle, they do not distort! I tried to get my hands on one but they said that they are programmable and do not work like regular LED monitors.  In this picture, I am way past 12 inches on center just to show how well they work:

 

Eric, I really appreciate you taking the time to investigate these monitors. I am also glade that you are planning to use them for your DU's in case we are able to find that perfect center monitor. I know the technology is out there, we just need to find a source willing to sell it to us.

 

(Posted by Eric Tomlin 01-26-11)

I think that this would be a good time to chime in and offer a little info on the matter. The first thing is that just because a monitor is "LED" doesn't mean that it is inherently better. In theory it should be, but I think that just like any other product line, there are good and bad models. Whether this is a good model or not is something I don't know. Basically the difference though between LED and LCD type displays is that it's the *back lighting* of that front display that is different, not the screen itself. There's a great explanation of this here: http://www.buzzle.com/articles/led-vs-lcd-monitor.html

 

What I do notice is that the monitor is oriented 180 off from the way that I think most cockpit builders orient their monitors in portrait. Typically (as is mine), you orient the TOP toward the Copilot seat, because monitors are built with the typical use as being seen from the sides or slighting from the top down. *Slightly* top down, but rarely from the bottom up. In this test, it's oriented to where the top is pointed to the Copilot, who, let's face it, are rare features of our home projects.

 

In my project, I have a very similar effect from the copilot seat as Eric G has from the Left seat, but I do think it's not quite as noticeable as it is here. Ron has been in it a few times and can attest that while it's not perfect, it's not as severe as shown here. However, Dave's gauges are a bit grayed out from that angle. Also, it's worth noting that JET45 RMUs are not affected too much by that angle because of the color that's displayed- Green primarily. When you have the gray RMU bezels toggled on in the JET45 software, that is similarly grayed out like what is shown in Eric' videos, but again not quite as bad and the actual RMU data is very easily seen (on my monitor at least).

 

One last note: While LED technology is better, it's not a fix all. The real fix all is a screen built and oriented like the one Ron shows. BUT, it's not because it's LED. It's because it's MADE to be presented in portrait mode vs. landscape. That's where the real challenge is- sourcing affordable monitors-LED or LCD- in [b]portrait[/b] mode. As such, I think that the very best possible solution right now is to have either 2 separate RMU LCDs (small 5" type screens) and a small but slightly bigger screen for the gauges that Dave produce or two slightly bigger screens where 1 would cover the two RMUs at once and the other all three standby's at once.

 

(Posted by Eric Williams on 01-26-11)

Thanks to Eric T for pointing out that the monitors are designed for a slightly top down viewing angle- you are bang on. This monitor is definitely skewed to that viewing angle without a doubt. I had not considered that at all. There is a VERY noticeable change.

 

As Eric T also pointed out, there seems to be confusion almost everywhere as to what an LED monitor is all about. They are virtually the same as previous Liquid Crystal Displays but one exception- the LCD is back lit by Light Emitting Diodes versus the CCFLs (cold-cathode fluorescent lamps). This allows for significantly less power consumption. It also has a very nice side effect in that the LEDs run on low voltage low current so the monitor can now be made thinner, lighter and cheaper than before. The I-Inc ones I have run on a 12 volt supply which is external to the monitor (same as a laptop power supply) No longer does the factory need to accommodate the power supply/voltage regulation within the monitor. FYI these things would make a great TV in an RV by supplying the VGA and throwing away the 110V adapter..

 

I got out the DSLR and the following pictures are exactly as how I see the monitor in front of me according to my eyes. Again, Eric T was bang on- if you orient the monitor in Portrait mode with the top toward the captain, the view is fantastic. Slightly worse from center, and noticeably bad for the copilot.

 

First shot centered, perpendicular to the monitor face at exactly 24":

 

Second shot from captain side 12" from center and still 24" back:

 

Third shot from First Officer side 12" from center and still 24" back:

 

I added the RMU this time so anyone can make their own assessment. If you can tolerate the FO having a slightly more distorted view, these seem to work quite good. They are still a lot more sensitive to viewing angle than any of my more pricier LCD's at home. Also remember that the distortion will be less noticeable if there is not a colored background- darn, I should have done that too!

 

(Posted by Kris Stow on 01-27-11)

Eric, thanks for the photos I can see the distortion now.. The difference fro the captains viewing angle and the FO is amazingly different. I will have to remember that when placing the monitor to orient the monitor topside towards the captain.  It seems to me you would be right when saying that adding a colored background image could possibly make things worse. Like I said before we have to remember that most of the monitor will be covered up.

 

So I guess the big question still remains would this LED solution be best or could we still get away with LCD back lighting monitors with close outcomes? At this point in time the prices are virtually the same and both company have in stock, so which one should I go for you think?

 

(Posted by Eric Tomlin on 01-27-11)

Kris, I would go with an LCD I think. It may be the brand, or the particular unit Eric G has bought, but the monitors that myself, Ron, and Shane have do not show it quite as severe. Of course, buying those are a little hard as they are much older and slim to find now. Best of luck. I understand the feeling of wanting to buy something once, and not two or three times to find the best "fit".

 

(Posted by Eric Williams on 01-27-11)

Agreed. I would probably go with a bit better unit for the center display. These units are extremely sensitive to viewing angle in all directions (but it seems tolerable to me). I have my suspicions that it has more to do with the price point than the fact it is LED back lit.

 

There are also some areas of the monitor that the display is slightly distorted (looks like larger pixels) this only shows up when viewing documents or web pages but is definitely a flaw nonetheless. Pretty sure they are not top quality units.  I am going to keep mine for my pilot/FO displays anyhow but will be using an older LCD for my RMU's etc.

 

(Posted by Kris Stow on 01-27-11)

Thanks guy, I just purchased the center monitor via the part number on the PDF that Ron has created, Acer X163WbWM 15.6". I was just curious if a LED back lit version would be better.

 

By the way, this is a good source for the 15" Standard LED screen for the left and right MIP:

http://www.pcliquidations.com/c280---15-lcd-monitors

 

Again great feedback and I hope others read this and learn as much as I did.

 

(Posted by Alaxus on 04-06-11)

I have run into an issue where the center monitor sort of pokes out above the glare shield cover line. The monitor seems to be sitting a bit high. I have tried lowering the center monitor a touch but then it interferes with the landing gear panel switches at the back.  What are you guys doing in this situation, or have I missed something?

 

(Posted by Ron Rollo on 04-06-11)

I am not sure what is going on but I will show you what I have and you can compare notes.  First off, I am using a Acer 15" wide view LCD for the center monitor. As it sits in the portrait mode, it is 14.25" tall, including the bezel.

 

Here are a few pictures of what I have:

 

From this angle you can see that the center monitor is under the glare shield line, barely!

 

I double checked with a straight edge, it's good:

 

I took my shell apart so you could get a better view from this angle!

 

The only other thing I can think would cause this is the angle of the glare shield is less than 18 degrees.  This drawing below shows the profile of the glare shield and how the center LCD screen fits under the glare shield cover.  See photo below:

 

NOTE:  If you would like a .dxf file version of this drawing above, it is at the bottom of this thread.

 

(Posted by Alaxus on 04-06-11)

Looking at your pictures, I might have to just go with what I have. I have the same Acer 15" center monitor as you. And it is pretty much in the same position. In any case I will work something out.  Thanks Ron, nice pictures by the way!